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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 00:41:26 2001
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From: Bit Dude <bitknot@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Traveller XML - step 2
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--- Mark Preston <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk> wrote:
.. As for the "body" tag name - this one is tricky isn't it? ...


In Astronomy, one thinks of these things as bodies, or celestrial
bodies.  The common theme - they're all in space.

So here my toss in the hat - astrobody.

Staying in canon, one my also consider that all objects are in a
given system.  Then systembody/systemobject/Systemelement may also
work (though I prefer the astrobody - I also liked the cbody
suggestion)...

Keep Travell'n  -bitKnot

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 00:52:50 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] Palm computers
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--- Mike Peters <Travelleri@home.com> wrote:
> ..Anyway, my question is has anyone made any Traveller software for
> the Palm yet...

I had a Casio PDA years ago which I thought of using for Traveller.  
I was thinking the last month that it would be an interesting project
using todays palms, but the development tools cost money that I'd
rather spend elsewheres :(.  If you find good free Windows based
devel tools (C/C++), I might be interesting in doing a few things
just for fun (assuming you are willing to test)!

-bitknot@yahoo.com







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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 02:04:49 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:59:46 +0100
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Hi!

Is it possible that the link on www.downport.com that enables one to
subscribe to this list is wrong? It tries to "subscribe traveller"
instead of the obviously correct "subscribe tml"... May be hard for
newbies to find out.


CU,
Ingo
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 02:09:29 2001
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From: "Andy Brick" <andy@exeus.com>
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Subject: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:06:13 +0100
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Hi,

As an off topic remark, I am one of a growing number of gamers on the
Chaosium mailing list who were originally shocked to find that Chaosium,
that famous BRP-based game house, was now producing supplements (i.e. Dragon
Lords of Melnibone, that is to say what was "Elric!") for the so-called
"d20" open gaming system (for d20, read AD&D 3rd Ed with little changes). I
was then even further annoyed to discover that Pagan Publishing are doing a
d20 version of Call Of Cthulhu - which leads to the subject of this email.

You see, icosahedriphobia is the irrational fear of things with twenty
sides.

ObTrav : Please, no Traveller : d20 !! Never !!

Andy







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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 03:31:39 2001
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From: "Hendry, Philip" <p.hendry@lancaster.ac.uk>
To: "Tml (E-mail)" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] CT to G:T and back again?
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:28:06 +0100
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Hi Folks,

I was wondering, with the huge amount of 'stuff' appearing for G:T, whether
anyone had worked out the conversions needed to make it easy to use G:T stuff
in CT, or vice versa?  If so, is this info readily available and/or on the WWW?

Cheers,
Phil

A professor is someone who talks in someone else's sleep.  W.H. Auden, 1907-73

http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/physics/staff/pch.htm 
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 03:36:09 2001
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From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Traveller XML - step 2
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:44:22 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bit Dude [mailto:bitknot@yahoo.com]
> Sent: 10 April 2001 08:37
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Traveller XML - step 2
> 
> 
> --- Mark Preston <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> .. As for the "body" tag name - this one is tricky isn't it? ...
> 
> 
> In Astronomy, one thinks of these things as bodies, or celestrial
> bodies.  The common theme - they're all in space.
> 
> So here my toss in the hat - astrobody.
> 
> Staying in canon, one my also consider that all objects are in a
> given system.  Then systembody/systemobject/Systemelement may also
> work (though I prefer the astrobody - I also liked the cbody
> suggestion)...
> 
> Keep Travell'n  -bitKnot

If people are objecting to "body", and "type" is used elsewhere then how
about "bodytype"...

Matt
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 03:50:15 2001
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From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
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In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCCEFPCDAA.andy@exeus.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

The d20 system has an elegance to it... but anyway, how much does the 
'random factor mechanic' you use matter? We're ROLE-playing not 
ROLL-playing.

Half the time I resolve everything on d100 anyway (easier to carry 2d10 
than a shed-load of polyhedral dice!).

Whether someone picks up a d20 TRAVELLER or not I wouldn't know, Wizards 
are quite fixated on their d20 STAR WARS as far as an SF RPG goes... and 
they still have ALTERNITY knocking around if they want to do a 'generic' 
SF game.

Like GURPS, the idea is that once you have got the hang of the core 
mechanic (and d20 is so simple I ran a game before I'd read it!) you can 
move to another game without having to learn the mechanics from the bottom 
up.

I play (and write) TRAVELLER because of the overall concept, the whole 
idea of star-spanning civilisations in which the characters can, well, 
travel... I don't honestly care what shape dice I roll when said 
characters get into a fight or try to fix the Jump drive.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 03:51:41 2001
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From: "Peter L.S Trevor" <ptrevor@rctrevor.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
References: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCCEFPCDAA.andy@exeus.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
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Andy Brick wrote:
> Please, no Traveller : d20 !! Never !!

Seconded!

Regards PLST
(aka Stalin)



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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 04:41:59 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 06:39:45 -0500
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net>
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References: <20010409.205209.-223513.2.cnl.rubicon@juno.com>
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clifford n linehan wrote:
> 
> Greetings all,
> 
>         I have completed all 167 sectors of the Zhodani Core Route and they have
> been posted to the Core Route Projects website.
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/traveller_core_route/proj001.html
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> 
> Clifford Linehan - cnl.rubicon@juno.com
> http://www.geocities.com/traveller_core_route
> Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Zhodani Core Route.

AWESOME job, Clifford! Thanks for *your* time!

David
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 04:44:50 2001
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You won't mind using the traditional d6s, then.

Traveller has a strong, strong heritage of mechanics. Throwing them out 
when they work so well would be a real own goal. Traveller is the 
seconds strongest property in RPGs after D&D. It doesn't need d20.

And as Loren pointed out IIRC, it's already had d20. :-)

- Rob.

On Tuesday, April 10, 2001, at 11:47  am, Megan Robertson wrote:
> I don't honestly care what shape dice I roll when said
> characters get into a fight or try to fix the Jump drive.
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 04:54:21 2001
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Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:51:16 +0100
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Hmm. +5 FGMP Anyone ? Chaotic Evil Zhodani ? Battle Dress with  AC -8 ?

Nope.

Andy

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 05:17:38 2001
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Looks like Tod has changed the code for subscribing. He used to allow anyone
to use his CGI and put the subscription form on their websites. Looks as
though that is not allowed anymore.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Ingo Heinscher
Is it possible that the link on www.downport.com that enables one to
subscribe to this list is wrong? It tries to "subscribe traveller"
instead of the obviously correct "subscribe tml"... May be hard for
newbies to find out.


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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 05:39:28 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 06:36:16 -0600
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Hello? Has it happened again?
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On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:23:40AM -0500, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> ...Spokesophant...

Even in the future political correctness, that bane of reasoned
thought, is still a scourge upon us:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>

Those who beat their swords into ploughs will plow for those that don't.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 05:49:33 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
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--- "Andy Brick" <andy@exeus.com>
> wrote:

<<snip>>
>
>You see, icosahedriphobia is the irrational fear of things with twenty
>sides.
>
>ObTrav : Please, no Traveller : d20 !! Never !!

What, you didn't like TNE?  >;-)



==
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 06:06:14 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] CT to G:T and back again?
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--- "Hendry, Philip" <p.hendry@lancaster.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>Hi Folks,
>
>I was wondering, with the huge amount of 'stuff' appearing for G:T, whether
>anyone had worked out the conversions needed to make it easy to use G:T stuff
>in CT, or vice versa?  If so, is this info readily available and/or on the WWW?

My GT 1st edition includes information on converting CT, MT, TNE, and T4 characters to GT.  I'm given to understand that GT 2d edition has simplified these guidelines.  One should be able to reverse the guidelines to convert GT characters to CT.

Alternately, one can order various BITS publications, many of which (including the outstanding combat supplement _At Close Quarters_) provide information on using the product with all versions of Traveller.

<blatant plug> I especially recommend the upcoming _101 Corporations_ from BITS.... ;-) </blatant plug>

BITS products can be found at:

http://www.bits.org.uk

and (for Stateside ordering)

http://www.warehouse23.com

As far as starships are concerned, you're best off converting by function: decide what niche the ship in question fills, determine the "must-have" parameters, then design a new ship that best fits the niche in question.  Conversion tables are less than optimal (or at least have proven so in converting between High Guard and FF&S2 armor, for instance), since each design system has different assumptions (forex, HG ignores the mass of components, while FF&S2 does not).

Finally, keep in mind that most GT products are designed for easy use by players of other Traveller systems.  There are relatively few GURPS-specific rules in most GT supplements.



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From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
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In-Reply-To: <200104101141.EAA20017@smtpout.mac.com>
Put it this way, Rob - there's a d6 in my pocket at this very moment :-)

But a good RPG is a lot more than a neat game mechanic. Like many folk 
I'll probably always be searching for the ideal mechanic, continually 
tweaking things and writing additions and variations. But that's 
background, peripheral to what makes a good game. And TRAVELLER most 
definitely is a good game!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 06:29:34 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:31:16 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
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So, two things...

Bit Dude wrote:
> 
> --- Mike Peters <Travelleri@home.com> wrote:
> > ..Anyway, my question is has anyone made any Traveller software for
> > the Palm yet...

Not that I'm aware of. I started a Palm-based sector viewer a year
or so ago, but my time quickly disappeared and so I've done essentially
nothing on it. It can draw an empty hex map on the screen - wow!

There may be some generic Palm-based RPG aids out there though.
 
> I had a Casio PDA years ago which I thought of using for Traveller.
> I was thinking the last month that it would be an interesting project
> using todays palms, but the development tools cost money that I'd
> rather spend elsewheres :(.  If you find good free Windows based
> devel tools (C/C++), I might be interesting in doing a few things
> just for fun (assuming you are willing to test)!

Microsoft eMbedded Visual Tools 3.0 for developing PocketPC apps
is free, from Microsoft. It can be downloaded from:
http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/downloads/emvt30.asp
It shoul dbe able to generate code for any Casio handheld (I think).

Note that it's 304 Megabytes. :)

Ethan
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 06:39:52 2001
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Andy Brick wrote:

> ObTrav : Please, no Traveller : d20 !! Never !!
> 
> Andy

www.gniko.com/english and then guess which link to follow... :)

GNiko

-- 
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 07:10:33 2001
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on 4/10/01 5:16 AM, Swordy at swordworlder@earthlink.net wrote:

> Looks like Tod has changed the code for subscribing. He used to allow anyone
> to use his CGI and put the subscription form on their websites. Looks as
> though that is not allowed anymore.

Actually, the subscribe cgi has moved, sorry about that.  I'll send the new
code, or you can grab the source from http://tml.travellercentral.com. or
just make a link there.

Tod

--
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They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 07:34:09 2001
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To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Traveller XML - step 2
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:52:19 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John G. Wood
> Sent: 09 April 2001 20:46
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Traveller XML - step 2
>
> Don't forget "ring" (although you might prefer to use "asteroid" to
> double for this).
>
> As to the name, all they have in common really is that they occupy
> orbits (although I admit the orbits of primary stars around
> the galaxy
> are generally ignored). How about "orbitals"?
>
Ohhhh, sugar!!! I'd forgotten about really big artificial objects like
rings and Culture-type orbitals.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 07:59:59 2001
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on 4/10/01 5:16 AM, Swordy at swordworlder@earthlink.net wrote:

> Looks like Tod has changed the code for subscribing. He used to allow anyone
> to use his CGI and put the subscription form on their websites. Looks as
> though that is not allowed anymore.
> 

The corrected code is available at http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod

--
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They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
                                             -Daniel Webster
-- 
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 08:45:05 2001
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On Tuesday 10 April 2001 at 10:06:13GMT +0100 (which was 19:06 where I live) Andy Brick wrote:
> ObTrav : Please, no Traveller : d20 !! Never !!


Icosahedriphobes should definitely avoid:

  http://www.glashier.com/rpg/traveller/traveller_d20.htm


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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 09:08:01 2001
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Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
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At 12:51 PM 04/10/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Hmm. +5 FGMP Anyone ? Chaotic Evil Zhodani ? Battle Dress with  AC -8 ?
>
>Nope.

While I agree with the idea that a d20 Traveller would be a Bad Thing, I
have to point out a slight flaw in this post.

In d20, AC counts up.  A normal person has an AC of 10, and armor adds to
this (along with Dex bonuses, and of possible modifiers.)  To hit, you roll
a d20, plus whatever bonuses you have (skill, magic weapons, etc.) and try
to exceed the AC of the target.  Nice system.

Yes, I have D&D3, and I like it.
--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
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sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 09:26:00 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:24:10 -0400
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Thanks for the kind replies to my extrapolations of Guatney's
"Port to Jump Point" article in JTAS #22.

Several people have proposed that as in-system microjumps and
jumps to deep space are confirmed canon, that the Jump Vortices
model should account for them.  I agree, but would like to make
note that Not All Traveller Universes Are Alike, and that there
is no problem with having a TU where in-system microjumps and
deep-space jumps are not a part of how jump drive works.  With
that in mind, I'd like to present an extrapolation of Gautney's
method for dealing with these situations.

MICROJUMPS
I seem to recall that Gautney's article suggested that a jump drive
could be used to move one place along the system jump points.  Here's
a possible way to put the concept into practice, let's say that the
MacGuffin system has the following major jump points, ordered from
Jump1 (the largest body) to Jump5 (the smallest body):

Jump1: MacGuffin (the system primary)
Jump2: Gimmick (the largest gas giant)
Jump3: Cliche (the smaller gas giant)
Jump4: Plot Device (the main world)
Jump5: Gagline (a small world on the fringe of the system).

(Note that MacGuffin will technically have thousands of Jump
Points, as every body in the system over some minimum size will
generate a jump point at the 100 diameter limit.  Many of these
jump points will be within the jump points of other bodies,
such as moons orbiting a gas giant, while others may be too
small to affect starships that aren't right on top of them.)

Now, a Jump-1 Free Trader nearer to Plot Device than to any of
the other major bodies in the system would be considered to be at
the system's Jump4 point.  With a jump, the Trader could jump to
Cliche (Jump3 point), Gagline (Jump5 point), Plot Device
(Jump4 point) or to the Jump1 point of Parody (the system
one parsec away from MacGuffin).  In all cases, the Free
Trader would pop out of jump space at the 100 Diameter limit
of the jump point it was jumping to.
A Jump-4 Imperial Destroyer, on the other hand, could start from
almost any location in the system and jump to any of MacGuffin's
jump points, as the most difficult in-system microjump would be
from MacGuffin's primary (the Jump1 point) to Gagline (the Jump5
point), a move of only four places along the system jump points.

DEEP SPACE JUMPS
The Jump Vortices created by a star system, while making very
easy landmarks for jumpspace navigation, are sufficiently
disruptive to the interface between jumpspace and normal space
to seriously curtail where and how ships exit to normal space.
When a jump drive is directed towards a system's jump vortice,
the jump exit point can only be directed towards one of the bodies
generating the vortices and the ship will be dumped into normal
space at the 100 diameter limit.  This disruption effect extends
outwards a great distance from the star system, perhaps as far
as 1000 to 10000 AU from the system primary.
Beyond the area affected by this disruption, there are no
jump vortices to attract or control jump space exits.
In theory, this makes any location beyond a system vortice
a potential exit point for a deep space jump, but navigation
to any precise deep space point is very difficult.  Small
deep-space objects (rogue planets, asteroids, comets, etc.)
may create tiny jump-vortice targets, but without the massive
disruption signal of a star to use as a guide such a miniscule
target is easily missed.  An entirely targetless jump - such
as a ship-to-ship redezvous in deep space - is perhaps the
most difficult excercise of a Navigator's skills.
If a sizable deep-space target is located and this precise
location is passed on to a Navigator, then the likelihood of a
successful jump to that location becomes easier by orders of
magnitude - almost as easy as a jump to the 100 diameter limit
of a nearby star.

Walt Smith
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 09:32:38 2001
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From: "Dave Strebe" <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: "Glenn Patterson" <gun-sgt@home.com>
Subject: [TML] BBC News  SCI-TECH  Before the Big Bang
Date:  Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:26:54 -0700
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Oh Oh parallel universe theory

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1270000/1270726.stm

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 10:24:34 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:21:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
Subject: [TML] Fwd: Starting The Game Days Again
To: a a tml Tod <tml@travellercentral.com>,
   traveller mailing aa list <traveller@lists.ient.com>,
   in SF ab traveller <travellerinsf@onelist.com>
Cc: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
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Kristian Miller asked me to forward his gracious invitation to everyone to
play Traveller board, miniatures, and sometimes role-playing games at his
home in San Jose.  With a few brief hiatuses, we (the San Jose Traveller
Group) have been meeting monthly since November 1999.  

Please contact Kristian for address, directions, and other information.

--Glenn


--- Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com> wrote:
> From: "Kristian Miller" <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
> Subject: Starting The Game Days Again
> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:43:44 -0700
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I think its about time to start the game day again. April 28 will be the
> date. Same time (11:00), same format (games then dinner). I don't have
> Luther's email so if someone could send it to me I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Primary Game: Mega-Invasion Earth
> Secondary: ???
> 
> RSVP. Glenn, could you let the TML and SF-TML know? Thanks.
> Kristian

__________________________________________________
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 10:24:34 2001
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Subject: RE: [TML] BBC News  SCI-TECH  Before the Big Bang
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:24:49 -0400
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Now that's funny. Wobbly, parallel, infinite planes bumping into each other
after a drunken binge, no doubt. I thought up almost the same thing during a
St. Paulie Girl induced gaming stupor in 1981. These guys must be Alternity
players ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Dave Strebe

Oh Oh parallel universe theory

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 10:28:23 2001
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Subject: [TML] Density of batteries?
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Quick question.. about how dense (in grams/cubic centimeter) are your
average household batteries?
--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 10:49:36 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:47:47 -0500
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Subject: Re: [TML] Hello? Has it happened again?
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"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:23:40AM -0500, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> > ...Spokesophant...
> 
> Even in the future political correctness, that bane of reasoned
> thought, is still a scourge upon us:-)

Why, *of course!* In some circles, that is. <g>

Eris
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 10:52:28 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] Density of batteries?
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> Quick question.. about how dense (in grams/cubic centimeter) are your
> average household batteries?
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com

Checking an AA battery (EverReady Alkaline) I get about 3.47g/cc.  Hope that
helps.

Tod

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 10:53:47 2001
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>Quick question.. about how dense (in grams/cubic centimeter) are your
>average household batteries?

Right. This one has too many steps to be definitive, but it will serve as a 
back of the envelope calculation. I got these numbers from a recycling page:

Total number of alkaline batteries sold in the US (1992): 2,200,000,000
Total weight of these batteries: 202,712,000 pounds = 91,948,616,507 grams

And:

Guesstimate of the average volume of an alkaline battery: 6 cm^3

So:

Total volume of alkaline batteries sold in 1992: 13,200,000,000 cm^3

So then:

Average density: 6.97 g/cm^3

(Call it 7 g/cm^3)

Cheers,
Paul Drye


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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 12:41:04 2001
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From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: [TML] RE: (OT): Icosahedriphobia
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Andy writes:
<snipped>
>ObTrav : Please, no Traveller : d20 !! Never !!

        I have no personal problem with using a d20.  On
        the other hand, the d6 mechanic of Traveller has
        a certain feel to it that I like.  This despite the wide
        range of values and linear progression that the d20
        allows.  On the gripping hand, if someone was to
        run Traveller with d20 (or d17, or just about any
        other d), I would not object.

Peez

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 13:04:49 2001
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Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia [LONG]
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:03:02 +0100
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Hi

Ok, so why I am so opposed to d20 ? Why don't I want to see d20 Traveller,
( or for that matter, d20 Call Of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Elric! ... the list
goes on ... )

Basically, because AD&D and now d20 have always seemed inconsistent,
arbitrary, unfair. In short, look at these reasons -

Alignments - too black and white. No one is wholly evil, no one is wholly
good. People who are right jobsworths (as in "it's more than my job's
worth" ) by day can and do make random decisions. In short, nine or so
stereotypical alignments borrowed heavily from Moorcock is not a good
solution. It's better to provide the character with guidelines of one sort
or another, either as merits/flaws as some systems do, or religion, culture,
family, whatever, to provide basic motivations, and then for the _PLAYER_ to
decide how to interpret these and do the rest.

Classes - these *really* irk me. The whole idea that instead of gradual
progression, one day you get enough experience points to exceed a level
threshold and suddenly all of your related abilities improve is just too
abstract for me. Moreover, they stereotype characters. Instead of saying
"he's a twenty year veteran who did some time in the Scouts before spending
the last eight years as a mercenary" you will just end up saying "he's a
10th level fighter" - the same as all of the others. I'm not even sure that
you can move easily between classes or multi-class in d20, but I'd bet that
it's not as easy as changing careers in Traveller. A character should be the
sum of his or her experiences, not a checklist for an artificial stereotype.
You should strive to build an individual, not clone a template.

Hit Points - These should not be related to experience. At least if they
are, why should an expert fighter be able to apply them (representing his
skill at dodging sword blows et al) to say, a falling rock that takes him by
surprise ?

Wounds - I understand that d20 has changed this somewhat, and now there is
an equivalent to the wounding in Traveller (you know, one stat at zero, two
stats at zero, three stats at zero ...) in that there is a major wound
level. However, it's hard to work out how badly injured a character is if
hit points represent experience too - if a "fighter" has 100hp and loses 50,
is he really 50% damaged ? or 50% less capable ? 50% less experienced ? What
?

Armour - Instead of blocking damage, this makes it harder to deliver a blow.
I don't agree with this either ; I much prefer systems based on absorbing
damage as this makes more sense. No one, no matter how skilled, is going to
find a weakpoint that bypasses all-encompassing armour like say basic combat
armour. What they are going to do is perhaps deliver a blow with their
firearm that penetrates the armour. later Traveller systems were all about
Penetration and Attenuation of the same ; I prefer this mechanism as it is
more realistic.

Magick - Don't go there. Traveller's Psionics and Pendragon's rather heavy
ritualistic magic remain the best treatments of this in a roleplaying game
after Mage:The Ascension's True Magick, which is awesomely powerful and yet
very simple to run. AD&D was and probably is still modelled on Jack Vance -
great if you are running the Dying Earth, but if you are running another
universe (your own or one based on fiction) then not so appropriate.

Saving Throws - These were, and may well be, still very arbitrary. I'd
prefer saving throws based more on characteristics and/or skills, where a
character's abilities count. It's what makes characters more individual.

Weapons - AD&D used to be that a character was near enough equally
proficient in all weapons depending on their level of experience. I don't
know about d20, but if to hit numbers are more dependent on class and level
than skill and specialisation then I would believe that this is not terribly
realistic either.

I could go on, I won't. I personally don't like d20 for the reasons above.
If you do, fair enough. What would be a terrible shame though is that if
effort goes into producing products and supplements for d20, that's effort
taken away from developing for the original games system, and that I feel is
a considerable loss. I feel the same about GURPS Traveller, and I felt the
same about TNE - I believe that the best way forward is for a game system to
be supported and developed, not replaced entirely.

Traveller (be it Classic, Mega or T4) is a well rounded, well balanced,
consistent system, with thousands of man hours of play testing. Traveller
and other second generation roleplaying games produced around '77-'79, like
RuneQuest and later Call Of Cthulhu, are games which allow a great deal of
flexibility whilst providing a "realistic", consistent framework to play in.
They encourage individuals and better roleplaying as a result.

d20 is not flexible, and enforces stereotypical characters and arbitrary
rules systems.

There, I have said my piece.

Offline.

Andy B.

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 13:13:05 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] Density of batteries?
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
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In mail you write:

>>Quick question.. about how dense (in grams/cubic centimeter) are your
>>average household batteries?
>
> Right. This one has too many steps to be definitive, but it will serve as a 
> back of the envelope calculation. I got these numbers from a recycling page:
>
> Total number of alkaline batteries sold in the US (1992): 2,200,000,000
> Total weight of these batteries: 202,712,000 pounds = 91,948,616,507 grams
>
> And:
>
> Guesstimate of the average volume of an alkaline battery: 6 cm^3
>
> So:
>
> Total volume of alkaline batteries sold in 1992: 13,200,000,000 cm^3
>
> So then:
>
> Average density: 6.97 g/cm^3
>
> (Call it 7 g/cm^3)

Which is *way* too dense. That's almost as dense as copper or iron.
Remember, most of those batteries are AA or AAA. So your volume figure
is way off.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 13:14:56 2001
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To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Porolzo
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:15:39 GMT
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knightsky@juno.com writes:

>In GURPS: Behind The Claw, Porolzo (2715 Rhylanor/Spinward Marches) is
>described as recovering from a recent war, and an Amber Zone
>classification recently listed.  When did this war occur?  There's no
>mention of Porolzo being an Amber Zone in any of the CT products that I
>have access to.  Did this occur in a module that I haven't seen? 

Porozlo is described as being bitterly torn by political dissension,
with frequent small-scale wars occuring - see the sample merc tickets
in both Mercenary and 76 Patrons for examples.  Perhaps one of the
wars got out of hand?

Stephen
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Subject: Re: [TML] Porolzo
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> >In GURPS: Behind The Claw, Porolzo (2715 Rhylanor/Spinward Marches) 
> >is described as recovering from a recent war, and an Amber Zone
> >classification recently listed.  When did this war occur?  There's 
> >no mention of Porolzo being an Amber Zone in any of the CT products 
> >that I have access to.  Did this occur in a module that I haven't
seen? 
> 
> Porozlo is described as being bitterly torn by political dissension,
> with frequent small-scale wars occuring - see the sample merc tickets
> in both Mercenary and 76 Patrons for examples.  Perhaps one of the
> wars got out of hand?

Thanks for the info.  One of my PCs in my upcoming CT campaign is from
Porolzo (semi-randomly determined), and the player wants to have a basic
idea of what sort of world he's coming form.
 

Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 15:28:28 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:25:10 -0500
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From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: [TML] Archives On CDROM?
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I was wondering if anyone as of yet been able to download all of the 
archive files off the MPGN.com server?

If so how much space does it take up? Will it fit on a CDROM one two etc...?

I am interested in getting CDROM of the archives, hopefully in fairly 
usable format/program.

Yes I know this brings up many issues also.<G>

Sinbad Sam

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 16:17:48 2001
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   Traveller Mail List <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
Subject: [TML] Way OT: ARPC Spring Full-Auto Shoot
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I need a definite headcount of the folks who planto hang out with
me (or stay at my house, or both) for the ARPC Spring Full-Auto
Shoot.  The 2 definites that I have are Jesse DeGraff and Tod Glenn.

The most recent tenatives I know of are Doug Berry (and possibly
spouse), Glenn Goffin, and Bruce Johnson (and spouse.)

If you're on this list, please give me a definite "yes" or "no" as soon
as possible.  If you're NOT on this list, but plan to come, please also
contact me soonest.  I need to plan for the number of "house guests"
to expect.

Muchas gracias!

         - Mark C.

  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 17:09:36 2001
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Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:07:39 +1000
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Hello? Has it happened again?
Message-ID: <20010411100739.O25246@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <790253638A0FD411BC8100D0B73E4E6791D867@VIR> <200104100524.AAA51335@pompano.pcola.gulf.net> <20010410063616.A30608@4dv.net>
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Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> Even in the future political correctness, that bane of reasoned
                                                            ^^^
  How dare you use such patriarchal male-dominance language!
Obviously it should be "reaoffspringed" or "reaoffsprung" so as as not
to imply that only *male* children can "rea<son>".

> thought, is still a scourge upon us:-)

 :)


--
IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+>++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--
Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 17:23:15 2001
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Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:21:56 +1000
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
Message-ID: <20010411102156.Q25246@freeman.little-possums.net>
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Andy Brick wrote:
> Hmm. +5 FGMP Anyone ? Chaotic Evil Zhodani ? Battle Dress with  AC -8 ?

  Surely you mean *Lawful* Evil Zhodani, and Battle Dress with AC 28 :)


--
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 17:38:10 2001
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Subject: RE: [TML] Archives On CDROM?
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:36:26 -0700
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I got them all..less than 200 megs.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Sinbad Sam
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 15:25
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Archives On CDROM?


I was wondering if anyone as of yet been able to download all of the
archive files off the MPGN.com server?

If so how much space does it take up? Will it fit on a CDROM one two etc...?

I am interested in getting CDROM of the archives, hopefully in fairly
usable format/program.

Yes I know this brings up many issues also.<G>

Sinbad Sam

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 17:57:55 2001
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Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:05:28 +1000
From: Rob <rhoughto@one.net.au>
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sounds good...where'd I put that plane ticket...with the dateline I should be able to get a day of gaming in and get back to Australia by monday morning...(can you spare a dollar-equivilent? I'm saving up gor a G-Speeder)...

Rob

Glenn Goffin wrote:

> Kristian Miller asked me to forward his gracious invitation to everyone to
> play Traveller board, miniatures, and sometimes role-playing games at his
> home in San Jose.  With a few brief hiatuses, we (the San Jose Traveller
> Group) have been meeting monthly since November 1999.
>
> Please contact Kristian for address, directions, and other information.
>
> --Glenn
>
> --- Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com> wrote:
> > From: "Kristian Miller" <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com>
> > Subject: Starting The Game Days Again
> > Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:43:44 -0700
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I think its about time to start the game day again. April 28 will be the
> > date. Same time (11:00), same format (games then dinner). I don't have
> > Luther's email so if someone could send it to me I'd appreciate it.
> >
> > Primary Game: Mega-Invasion Earth
> > Secondary: ???
> >
> > RSVP. Glenn, could you let the TML and SF-TML know? Thanks.
> > Kristian
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 18:18:46 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 18:18:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bit Dude <bitknot@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Palm computers
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--- Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> Microsoft eMbedded Visual Tools 3.0 for developing PocketPC apps
> is free, from Microsoft. It can be downloaded from:
> http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/downloads/emvt30.asp
> It shoul dbe able to generate code for any Casio handheld (I
> think).
> 
> Note that it's 304 Megabytes. :)

Just wasted a day downloading 50 MB :(  ...304 No way (I reallly miss
my Cable modem!)  Thnaks for the info though!



__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 19:08:13 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:06:45 -0400
To: tml@travellercentral.com
From: Eric Freitas <efreitos@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Palm computers
In-Reply-To: <20010410074943.59218.qmail@web13103.mail.yahoo.com>
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At 00:49 4/10/01 -0700, you wrote:

>--- Mike Peters <Travelleri@home.com> wrote:
> > ..Anyway, my question is has anyone made any Traveller software for
> > the Palm yet...
>
>I had a Casio PDA years ago which I thought of using for Traveller.
>I was thinking the last month that it would be an interesting project
>using todays palms, but the development tools cost money that I'd
>rather spend elsewheres :(.  If you find good free Windows based
>devel tools (C/C++), I might be interesting in doing a few things
>just for fun (assuming you are willing to test)!
>
>-bitknot@yahoo.com

There is a complete suite of free tools.  Goto the developer section of
Palm's website, sign on as a developer (for free) and the tools and links
to the tools are available.  This includes a great Palm Pilot emulator
that runs under Windows.  Since you are in the development program, you
can download the various OS versions and use them for your development.

The only time this will cost money is if you decide to buy MetroWorks'
development tools which will put you back $300-$400.  I didn't even
consider it when the tools cost money.

I even have a zip disk with all the tools on it, in case I ever have the
time to use it, or the money to buy a Palm Pilot (or compatible).

Eric

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 19:33:19 2001
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Subject: [TML] Converting Striker to Traveller, Nicely
To: tml@travellercentral.com, traveller@MPGN.COM
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:40:21 +1000
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Dear Folks -

David Shayne wrote:
>I've been toying with the
>Idea of using the Striker rules as the basis for the combat
>system in my upcoming CT campaign but I have a bit of a
>problem with the damage conversions. It's just to grainy
>for role playing. Has anybody used these rules in their
>games? And if so how did you work damage?

Try looking at my Combat Rules page:
     Tavonni Repair Bays ==> Hyphen's Combat Rules ==> Weapons Tables

This is a list of weapons rated both with Striker ranges and MT damage. The
range bands are stated in the weapons tables, but the full list is
available in the Unified Range Table (navigate there from the Combat Rules
page). The range bands are slightly different from those in both MT and T4,
having been altered to fit more closely with Striker's ranges. For example,
many Striker longarms had ranges of 300/600/900m, so I figured why not make
the MT range bands fit these ranges more closely? I also terminated some of
the ranges based on the max range as stated in Striker (eg. the revolver,
pistol, and shotgun ranges), and included an "actual" max range column.

As for the penetration numbers, I based most of them on the MT
"attenuation" concept, so there are minor differences between my list and
the original Striker numbers. For a few of the unusual weapons (eg.
accelerator rifle), I ignored the MT numbers and went with the Striker
figures (modified to fit "my" range bands, of course! :-).

I haven't done the grenade launchers, heavy weapons, or starship weapons
yet (sorry!), as I've been working on Kenneth's KB3 task system rules (also
available from the Combat Rules page). And my home machine's been unplugged
for over a week while I move rooms.

See what you think and let me know any comments.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 20:49:40 2001
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Subject: Re: [TML] FW: Lifespan of Starships
To: tml@travellercentral.com, traveller@MPGN.COM
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:54:14 +1000
Message-ID: <OF45170FF5.C034EC20-ONCA256A2B.000FD529@centrelink.gov.au>
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Dear Folks -

Niko wrote:
>> Well, I started a campaign and gave the players a good, reliable
starship,
>> a yacht, dating back form Civil War - which makes it about four hundred
>> years old in 1111...
>
>FOUR hundred? I thought you said THREE hundred? We've been ripped off!
>
>Someone's been flying the ship backwards through hyperspace to set the
>mileometer (lightyearometer?) back...

<SPLORT!> Keyboard kill!

- Hyphen

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 21:17:50 2001
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Subject: [TML] Baycon
To: tml@travellercentral.com, traveller@MPGN.COM
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:22:57 +1000
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Dear Folks -

Doug wrote:
>The con is Memorial Day weekend, at the San Jose Doubletree Inn.  We are
>getting real close to the 20th anniversary, which should be quite a bash.

Er, that's the 26th-28 May, is it (assumed from an entry in my Franklin
Covey diary)??

>There will be the Traveller in SF Party Saturday and Sunday nights.

So, for us sad and poor non-US TMLer's, are you attaching a webcam to a
laptop and allowing us to drop in for a virtual party? ("Poor" because we
can't afford to fly over, and "sad" for even suggesting this idea in the
first place. Still, it would be a novelty!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 21:28:42 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:12:51 -0700
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: [TML] Baycon
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Cool idea re:  the webcam, but I'd bet the hotel would charge serious bank
on the network access :)

Jesse



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of
> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:23 PM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com; traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: [TML] Baycon
>
>
> Dear Folks -
>
> Doug wrote:
> >The con is Memorial Day weekend, at the San Jose Doubletree Inn.  We are
> >getting real close to the 20th anniversary, which should be quite a bash.
>
> Er, that's the 26th-28 May, is it (assumed from an entry in my Franklin
> Covey diary)??
>
> >There will be the Traveller in SF Party Saturday and Sunday nights.
>
> So, for us sad and poor non-US TMLer's, are you attaching a webcam to a
> laptop and allowing us to drop in for a virtual party? ("Poor" because we
> can't afford to fly over, and "sad" for even suggesting this idea in the
> first place. Still, it would be a novelty!)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----
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> majordomo@travellercentral.com with the words 'unsubscribe tml'
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 22:00:30 2001
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:59:44 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
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Subject: [TML] Re: OT : Icosahedriphobia
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"Andy Brick" <andy@exeus.com> wrote

> You see, icosahedriphobia is the irrational fear of things with twenty
> sides. 
> ObTrav : Please, no Traveller : d20 !! Never !!

Why not?

Traveller has always had a better setting than rules. A
Traveller variant with a different set of rules, GURPS, has
already been published and most of their stuff is pretty
good or better. Why not another, especially using a set of 
rules a lot of people already know?
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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 22:07:47 2001
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Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:07:21 +0300 (EEST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] OT : Icosahedriphobia
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On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Yes, I have D&D3, and I like it.

Hey, I own most of the 1st ed. AD&D hardbacks and quite a few of 2nd ed.
hardbacks. I like them, I have played RPGs using them, but still using D&D
mechanics for Traveller seems a bit strange - most rules I have seen for
Traveller have been way better than the new D&D ones.

(Well, I admit, I have an Shadowrun campaign, with almost unmodified
rules...)

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From owner-tml@travellercentral.com Tue Apr 10 23:29:46 2001
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X-Original-Article-From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: [TML] Way OT: ARPC Spring Full-Auto Shoot
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Message-ID: <10410.222218.8M7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:22:18 PST
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In mail you write:

> I need a definite headcount of the folks who planto hang out with
> me (or stay at my house, or both) for the ARPC Spring Full-Auto
> Shoot.  The 2 definites that I have are Jesse DeGraff and Tod Glenn.

When *is* the shoot again?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

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